Thursday, February 27, 2014

Study Discussion

I wanted to start a thread to discuss the addition of the new sage knowledge tables I'm devising.  I'm better than halfway through the cleric, and I will be following up on the druid, then the mage (the order is as much for the offline parties I'm running as well as this one).

Can you please offer some feedback, without obviously entrenching yourselves in any decision you might be making.  I plan to allow everyone to change their study choices, once they are prepped for each class and what they offer is more clear.


Andrej said...

Alexis, I have been aware of you re-working but have not yet read any of the changes. I'll try to do so by this weekend and provide comment.

Maximillian Boii said...

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to this...

I've been mulling over the last two posts, but I'm still working on feedback.

Ahmet said...

Anything for us humble sword-swingers?

Alexis Smolensk said...

Hah hah. Very funny.

Andrej said...

Had some time this morning to look things over. Let me make sure I have things correct:

Andrej, a 1st level cleric, selects Legends and Folklore as his Field and beasts as his specialty. His points are then as follows:

Field Studies
Beasts: 12
Artifacts: 1d8 (7)
Demi-gods: 1d8 (1)
Gods: 1d8 (2)
Heroes: 1d8 (7)

Non-Field Studies
Heraldry: 1d4 (2)
History: 1d4 (3)
Politics: 1d4 (4)
religious architecture: 1d4 (2)
divination: 1d4 (3)
dweomercraft: 1d4 (4)
medicine: 1d4 (3)
outer planes: 1d4 (3)
art & music: 1d4 (1)
astronomy & astrology: 1d4 (4)
Law & customs: 1d4 (3)
philosophy & ethics 1d4 (1)

Upon gaining 2nd level it looks like this:

Field Studies
Beasts: +1d12 (24) lucky roll!
Artifacts: +1d8 (10)
Demi-gods: +1d8 (4)
Gods: +1d8 (9)
Heroes: +1d8 (8)

Non-Field Studies
Heraldry: +1d4 (4)
History: 1d4 (6)
Politics: +1d4 (6)
religious architecture: +1d4 (1)
divination: +1d4 (5)
dweomercraft: +1d4 (5)
medicine: +1d4 (6)
outer planes: +1d4 (7)
art & music: +1d4 (2)
astronomy & astrology: +1d4 (6)
Law & customs: +1d4 (7)
philosophy & ethics +1d4 (3)

So that at 2nd level Andrej is entitled to 2 pieces of knowledge re: beasts, 1 piece of knowledge re: artifacts.

He's considered, by 2nd level, to be an authority on beasts, an enthusiastic amateur on artifacts and just an amateur, I suppose, on all other studies.

Correct so far?

I don't yet understand what the pieces of knowledge are, how and when they are determined and what they mean in game terms.

Lukas said...

I wont lie, it feels weird to know I will just know about everything once hitting the 10pt mark, but it makes it reliable and easy to dispense and request information.

Lukas said...

To put it more clearly...

I'm from Switzerland, I have architecture at 12.

I go to... oh say an Aztec temple. And I still have the same knowledge of Aztec as I do Swiss architecture.

That said, I end up benefitting more than losing and we all end up with faster and clearer gameplay.

Alexis Smolensk said...


I wanted to coach you regarding the determination of your final list.

Consider this.

You choose a specialty at first level, and the other three or four studies in your field each proceed upwards with a d8 per level until you become 5th.

That means that at 5th, your specialty will be 12 +4d12, but the other (let's say three) studies in that field would be 4d8 each. That is, not the same, because the rolls are random. That means ONE of them might be way, way higher than the other two, meaning you would have already had a head start in that particular study BEFORE choosing it as your second specialty. That might still mean you don't pick it, BUT surely that would affect your final decision, would it not?

That's why you should roll where you would be at 4th level before making that final decision for 5th level ... which I'm guessing you didn't do.

(IF you did do that, when I'll just shut up then)

THIS, I thought, was one of the really cool concepts incorporated into the new developed knowledge system.

Alexis Smolensk said...

Oh, Andrej, you should DUMP all previously generated numbers you've created.

Alexis Smolensk said...

Lukas, yes, Aztec vs. European ... but that knowledge at 10 points also only means that you would recognize it AS Aztec or As European.

Of course, if you like, we can always tweak things to make them regionally specific, say to seven world areas, and thus continent becomes region and region becomes sub-region.

Lukas said...

Well, I mean that's a very specific case, I'm just meaning general familiarity modifiers.

That said, proficiency in pole arms hardly has familiarity of culture involved...

Alexis Smolensk said...

I have to make some concessions in order to retain easy adaptation and implementation. Playability is always paramount, and often comes ahead of reality.

Alexis Smolensk said...

Hurm. I've also just thought of something else. Given how slow my travel is, and how large my world, how long would it take Lukas, right now, to travel to somewhere that knowledge of Aztec culture would come up? And given that he would know he was on his way there, would it not then follow that in the ports and among the familiar seamen piloting the boat that got Lukas to his destination, he would pick up the necessary knowledge to make sense of his knowing and recognizing Aztec architecture once he saw it?

Lukas said...

That's a fair assessment assuming the party doesn't somehow accidentally find themselves in some extra dimensional space that can teleport them instantly to some random locale.

Magic can be a pain in the ass sometimes. But, ignoring that point...

But here's a counterpoint and question. This would be valid for 10pt knowledge, but what about 30? I guess the person of 30pt knowledge may be better at connecting dots than the person at 10, but that much better?

I could see improved dot connecting being part of the knowledge which would reason being able to maintain sage knowledge everywhere.

Alexis Smolensk said...

Magic again, then. Suppose you're off to Mexico, and you drop into Valencia on the way, and BECAUSE you have a 30 rating in archeology, you impress the librarian, who takes you into the back and gives you a view of mexico through the library crystal ball, which you wouldn't get a shot except that you're already obviously of impressive credentials ...

Lukas said...

Nice. Also I guess someone at sage knowledge will have encountered more exotic books and stories talking about these places which would then have less catchup required.

Lukas said...

So, follow up question.

Does this mean that notoriety can be gained from having high skill? Is there some benefit that can be gained among the associated circles and possibly beyond those circles at higher points totals?

Admittedly I am primarily a Mage, so I have no illusions of being some great world changing architectural scholar, but I'm wondering if that is something that could come up conceivably.

Andrej said...

Alexis, just got back to this now... my above was supposed to illustrate my understanding of the system and be an example of posisble outcomes, not Andrej's actual selections. I only did levels 1 and 2... perhaps I should have selected a name other than Andrej to avoid confusion.

In any event, I understand and appreciate your point and considered it myself... given a certain set of rolls you could actually be more educated on a secondary field study than your specialty. In the above example "Andrej" is better educated in 6 non-field studies than he is in the field study of demigods. It's very cool.