Thursday, January 31, 2013

Further Days in Fiume

Jan 14, 1651, Wednesday afternoon
Weather:  with chilly temperatures and an intermittent drizzle, with a light breeze.

Upon the last day in question before the beginning of the journey the next day, Madam informs the party that an expected blizzard and gale is set to arrive in the morning, according to the prediction of weather she has received.  This is expected to blow over by afternoon, so the time of sailing has been extended to two bells after noon, whereupon she is confident they shall be able to safely make their way through the many shoals and isles south of Fiume.

It has been a rather unpleasant stay in the city.  Temperatures have, at best, been brisk, more commonly chilly or frosty ... though not worse than that.  The amount of humidity in the air, being by the sea, has made it all seem much worse, and it is especially hard on those used to continental climates.  It seems that at no time has anyone been warm.

The city is old, and filled with shiny churches and polished citadels, looking much brighter than they might in some mythical future 21st century.  The Shrine of Trsat shouldn't disappoint, as parts of it were added just seven years ago ... moreover, there are not many upon the steps or the top, as this is the off-season for pilgrims.  The 561 stairs, however, are a misery ... they are not of even size, they bend and are crumbled in places, and so it is worse than merely climbing 50 well-designed stairwells.  By the time any of you reach the top, it is late in the day and you're exhausted ... in the cold weather (colder as you climb) it all seems completely awful.  So while the shrine is marvelous, none of you are in a humor to see it by the time you reach it.

Yet you can't help notice that the more penitent seem driven to go up the stairs on their knees ...

Andrej would likely not have the urge to do so.  After all, there's very little likelihood that there's a stair of more than one flight anywhere in Cumana.

The Master-of-Arms is an Austrian named Oscar Deitweiller.  His men (none are women) are all Austrians save one:  the Slavonian sapper, named Belbog.   The footmen are called Moritz, Matthais, Lorenz, Dominik, Kilian, Valentin, Marco, Gabriel, Roland and Konstantin.  The two crossbowmen are Rainer and Manfred.

As regards hay, the horses will need 30 lb. per day for a light or light war horse, 38 lb. per day for a medium horse and 45 lb. per day for a heavy war horse.  Hay is 4 c.p. per pound (I haven't had stables charge for it in the past - I may need to change that, since it is more expensive than I would have guessed at).

I figure the party's whole weight - less hay - is 1,753.25 lbs.  Something else I've never worked out is freight rates ... but if I compare modern freight rates with the cost of staying in an inn for one night in a private room (comparable to a hotel), I get a cost of 25 s.p. per ton per day.  So if the party will work out how much additional hay they need, we can work out those rates - remember that even if the hay disappears, its technically still hold that can't be used for other goods, until such time as you put into port and then the weight can be renegotiated.

Too real for a campaign?  Hah.

Any other questions.  I'm still working on an answer for the Cumana government.

Oh, also, I get 24 persons and 10 horses.  Madam will ask for SEVEN days travel time in advance ... to repeat, that's 8 s.p. per person and 1 g.p. per horse per day.

140 comments:

Alexis said...

Andrej,

Regarding questions about Cumana.

The Slavs never penetrated this far. in the 7th to 10th centuries, the Khazaks held the Eastern Ukraine (which we'll call the 'Donbass' going forward, for this is what that half of Ukraine was called). The Donbass consists of the land between the Don River and the Dneiper, specifically south from where the Dneiper bends from going East to Southwest, and the heart of it is occupied by the Donets River basin, which was once one of the most heavily industrialized areas in the world, being rich in both iron and coal, like Silesia or the Ruhr Valley. The decline of steel has depressed it somewhat.

The Donbass is divided between the Donet's Hills (surrounding the river basin) and the prairie. The kingdom of Cumana spreads over both. The prairie are half-orcs that are human-orc mixes; the hills are half-orcs that are dwarf-orc mixes, call 'dworkin.' Andrej is one of the first sort.

The Slavs in the real world beat back the Khazars from Kiyev; this never happened, so much of the human mix is in fact Greek and Turkic - there would be some amount of Russia Slav, but this would be the north part of the kingdom around Sumy, not in Itossia (the south part of Cumana).

The Cossacks control an area on both sides of the Don Basin, stretching south towards the Emba River and east towards where the land becomes more desert like (which is controlled by the Pirates of Astrakhan). They are deeply, abidingly human - and deeply hate misegenation.

Cumana is a buffer state between the Crimea and Moscovy, and has sometimes joined with the Russians against the Poles, and sometimes with the Poles against the Russians. Poland extends all the way to modern Czernihow - Polissya - east of Kiyev in the area of Chernobyl.

The Crimea fell to the Turks sometime in the 16th century, having ended the Tatar Hegemony there. The Turks also control Azov, at the head of the Sea of Azov. Much of the Upper Don River (and the Volga above Astrakhan) is controlled by Moscovy.

The ruling class of Crimea would probably not be known to Andrej.

I think that gives you an idea of the neighbors. I will get up a map for you when you return, but in the meantime you can find it here:

http://www.thesameuniversewiki.org/D%2005%20-%20Don%20Basin.ashx

Alexis said...

Maximillian,

Regarding the armament of the Petrel. There are no cannon ... which makes one wonder, what should the armament be? I know that snaikas in the 14th century did employ catapults, and I am adding those ... but the main form of attack would have been to grapple and fight, rather than to blow the other ship apart. Galleys would still be common, but they weren't much use in the Baltic and North Atlantic, and the Madam comes from there - moreover, a galley isn't much dangerous during the winter months, since they weren't seaworthy even on the Med at that time. Still, they would be quite dangerous to a ship like the Petrel during good weather.

Maximillian said...

That is very interesting... changes the landscape of naval power a bit. And no worries about the lack of info on Fiume, that's a lot to digest about Cumana, between this and the last few notes.

James C. said...

Great info, Alexis. What about the government and ruling class of Cumana?

Alexis said...

Let me get back to you on that, James. I'd like to have a look at a book I don't have access to right now.

James C. said...

Sure thing, take your time.

Also, while the party has their down time Andrej will go to the shrine w/ Maximilian. That can just be some off-camera flavor.

Alexis said...

Well, I didn't look at the book, but the ship is done. You can see it on my blog. I'll pick up the campaign today in a couple hours - if no meetings come up. There's been a lot of sponteneity lately.

Maximillian said...

While Alexis is busy with his other lives, One thing we can do to advance the campaign is talk between ourselves. I feel like I have a bit of an idea of Andrej and Ahmet's goals (conversions and influence, and general swashbuckling, respectively), but much less for Lukas, (or Sophia, and Carlito.) I wonder if you have ambitions, or something you've been excited about? Personally, Maximillian and I have the same goal: exploration. I started out thinking that playing a merchant, would be a good way to see the world, but seeing Heironimus made me think I wanted a character that could explore the workings of magic as well. I'm sure his goals will evolve and focus, but at the moment I see him as being a bit starry-eyed, and just wanting to see the world.

Alexis said...

I encourage Maximillian's suggestion.

I've rewritten this post, made it one that's legitimate, so make sure you have a look.

Lukas said...

Unlimited cosmic power is good.

Although seeing the world is pretty great too.

I would like to reach at least level 7 to get myself a flying mount.

I would like to explore building and maintaining a holding.

I might want to see if I can persuade Andrej to arrange for a laboratory to be in the mission once the funding is sufficient and the key religious and operational facilities are present.

And if we encounter some particularly good fortune maybe in the form of a tower... Just sayin.

Lukas said...

looks like... for two riding horses for 60 days that's 14400 cp.

Through my amazing mathing skills... 1200 silver or... 75g. How much were riding horses again?

Alexis said...

Normally, that's not a price you have to pay, Lukas, because you can let your horses get most of their feed cropping the side of the road. It's an enormous expense only because there's no convenient verge for nipping.

I wouldn't pay for 60 days. I'd recommend 5 to 9 days per horse.

Maximillian said...

I get 315 lbs of hay per day, ~10 tons for 60 days.

comparing to the guidelines from bozen, that's roughly twice the feed requirements. ( I didn't realize there _were_ guidellines when I originally asked the question -- see haystack)

Alexis said...

Now that I think of it, 10 horses at 1,200 pounds plus per horse is at least 6 tons ... which counts at a total of at least 150 s.p. 10 g.p.!

I'm smarter than I think I am.

Alexis said...

The trick, Maximillian, is to realize that there are TWO kinds of horsefeed.

Horses must have both ordinary, mundane verge and a nutritious added supplement to their diet. The supplement costs money; normally the ruffage doesn't.

On board ship, you have to buy BOTH the hay AND the horsefeed supplement.

Lukas said...

Well yes, but if the trip is estimated to take 1 month to 3 months then I would like to consider the total possible cost. If it's twice the price of a horse then perhaps it could be cheaper to buy a horse on the other side.

Roughly it's 135g for two riding horses for 2 months.

I guess it would be useful to know how often we'll be making stops.

BUT... I will buy 9 days of hay because caution is important. And I will pay 21g passage... in silver as much as possible.

Bringing it down to 516s and getting rid of all that silver that piled up.

The hay weighs 540lbs


James C. said...

Will commit myself to the math of horse hay perhaps as soon as later this afternoon, but for now must be less than analytical. I spent the morning on some pretty heady stuff for work then spent my lunch break designing a new class for my future D&D campaign and my blog (will post Monday most likely, if interested).

As for Andrej's goals you've pretty much got them, Maximilian. Broadly speaking he'd like to make Cumanna a largely Catholic nation. That begins with a viable mission and a better understanding of the political and social clime.

Sofia is in love with Andrej (rules on love notwithstanding), though the virginal priest is oblivious to it so far. She is content to be around him, to protect him and to see him move closer to his goal of a Catholic Cumana for now.

She is also a recovering alcoholic and a bit out of shape for a monk, so she spends all of her free time training with her newly acquired glaive to increase her strength and martial skills.

Ahmet said...

Ahmet is mostly seeking battle and glory, but he too speaks of exploration and discovery. He has heard many tales of the exotic Americas, with its Elves and buffalo and wide open prairie, and would love to see such things for himself.

Enrico (Ahmet's henchman) is a pudgy, wide-eyed boy, having just recently turned 15. He seems something of a mama's boy, but is obviously trying to prove himself as a man. Nevertheless, there's still a lot of little boy in him and he's frequently telling jokes, singing songs, or nibbling on candy. He has latched onto Ahmet as the most obvious symbol of masculinity around. He yearns for the chance to show his mettle.

I can't speak as to the motivations of Tazio and Carlito (Enrico's hirelings), as they are NPCs in Enrico's employ as men-at-arms.

However, I can tell you they are teenagers from the Kingdom of Naples.

Carlito, the son of a sailor, is a comely lad and a natural athlete, though he frequently complains of muscle sprains and finds every opportunity to massage his arms and calves.

Tazio is a bit rougher looking, but perhaps a bit wiser as well. His father was a metallurgist, and he seems to know a lot about the value of metal objects.

Enrico and Tazio make every effort to keep Carlito away from wine, ale, or other spirits.

Ahmet said...

There also is our servant Hichem, a 17-year-old orphan from Ifriqiya. He is somewhat tall (6'1") and walks with a definite limp. His voice is slightly higher pitched than you'd expect, which is perhaps why he speaks so rarely. Like Tazio and Carlito, he is an NPC in our employ.

Maximillian said...

Ah interesting James. I look forward to seeing how that relationship plays out.

Re: how much hay to buy, was 9 days an indication of expected time between ports?
Also, Lukas, I'm not sure I follow how you got the 135 gp figure...did your math include the cost of the regular (grain) horsefeed and stowage?
Ah, sorry I confused Enrico and Carlito. Heh, I think Ahmet would make for a good cowboy, after he's done being a Pirate.

Maximillian said...

I'm curious how you see your relationships with Hornung or Andrej's new employer progressing. Is that something you'd like to pursue?

I fully expect to go the way the wind blows, but I think it would be fun to travel the old trading routes, either the spice roads into Arabia or Africa, or the silk road east, although the former are more interesting for some reason.

Lukas said...

That's only 60 for passage and 75 for hay, which looking back is incorrect. It should be 195g since there are two horses and that was only passage for one. This does not include grain or stowage costs for the hay/grain.

Lukas said...

Also I'm trying to keep most of my goals fluid, as currently there are a lot of plot lines that Andrej and Ahmet just started wrapping up apparently, and I think it would be better to see where everything settles.

James C. said...

Aye Max, while Ahmet eyes the west Andrej dreams of silk and spice caravans from the east and of Prester John's fabled kingdom.

As for Hornung, who knows? Alexis has a wonderful habit of reintroducing old characters. If Madame Salvador is one of Ahmet's favorites (and I admit I like her quite a lot myself, looting and pillaging notwithstanding) than Hornung or more accurately Serafina is one of mine.

My favorite so far might be the inspiration for your character, Herr Kiddpuddle, though.

Lukas said...

For the record, being on the friendly side with an experienced and capable looter might be to our advantage. Especially while traveling.

Maybe we'll end up making some stops, but if we follow directions we'll probably just end up with more XP and maybe more wealth too.

James C. said...

I hope you guys (Lukas, Max) don't feel like you have to keep your goals fluid or secondary to ours. Players have come and gone, but Lukas you're clearly a regular now and Maximillian I hope proves to be as well. You have just as much right to directing the party as anyone.

I have a habit of stepping forward and offering plans/ goals and I think that helps to move things along at times, but I hope nobody takes that as me being or thinking I'm in charge.

Lukas said...

Right now your plans have deadlines. Mine do not. Once we stop having deadlines I think I will impress upon my interests a little more thoroughly.

However, that being said, currently our interests are aligned. Divergence will likely occur post-laboratory.

Maximillian said...

ditto

James C. said...

P.S. I've already worked a nice, high tower, library and laboratory into my tentative floor plans for the mission... right at the head of the "cross" of the bulding's shape and above the sacristy, so yeah... I've been thinking about keeping a pet wizard. ; )

Alexis said...

The deadline is pretty far off, and more difficult still to collect on if the mission fails or Andrej fails to pay. At the moment, Ahmet is not under any deadline I'm aware of ... his family, so Ahmet was told by his sister, thinks he's dead.

Thus, the only deadline is the payment Andrej must make. Even the island of Koufonisia isn't a deadline.

While I'm on that, did you cease having the bank collect taxes for you? If you did, it merely means they'll stop sending someone to Koufonisia to collect it ... which might mean the local population will stop feeling any inclination to save money for when the rent comes due. Of course, that could work in your favor ... if you want to legal right to boot everyone off the place.

Maximillian said...

This game... I am continuously surprised and delighted.

Lukas said...

Hrm, seems a tad sacrilegious to put it there.

Be sure you keep the symbolic light coming through from that side as well.

Common tactic was to ensure the light came through there for more impressiveness factor.

Personally I've always been a fan of asymmetry, putting the tower on one of the arms, and a nice dome or other architectural structure over the top of the cross.

Might also give a better view of the front of the church from a window.

But it's your mission of coarse. I just want a better shot at the mob as they try and burn us out.

James C. said...

Yes, we told the bank to stop collecting. When we arrive in Kofunisia we will collect whatever is currently due and inform those there that new collection arrangements will be made in a place more convenient to our prescribed activities. Constantinople was suggested by Ahmet.

James C. said...

"Other arms" are right now dedicated to a monastery and space for some money making venture (winery, brewery, smithies, something...) but the plans are fluid. :)

Lukas said...

I guess now I'm curious about scale.

James C. said...

Big, but modular. I intend to build it in stages as coin is available. The tower with the library and laboratory are part of phase 2. I don't have the recent plans handy or I'd be more specific on dimensions.

Ahmet said...

Ahmet actually was given a deadline.

Ahmet sighs. "Fatima, I have my own concerns here. I must speak with my companions before I can make any decision regarding the mine. It will wait, yes? A year, two... copper does not spoil."

Naturally, there might be some legal requirement that Ahmet arrive by a certain date, but Ahmet isn't too keen on legal nuance.

"But Ahmet," says she - "It must be before the 1st day of December next year! Or else the Bey has said that the mine and the inheritance shall go to the state!"


That was September 3, 1650 -- so December 1, 1651.

Alexis said...

Well, you know, DM's are apt to forget these things. I wrote that, what, this time last year?

Ahmet said...

Yeah, I was debating whether I wanted to tell you or not ;)

Alexis said...

At some point, where you went back to Turkey, I would have gone to see what exactly she told you ...

James C. said...

(OOC: Guys, am down hard sick today. Will check in later in the afternoon if I can. I can barely keep my eyes open now, though.)

Ahmet said...

(OOC: Cast Cure Disease on yourself and let's go!)

Alexis said...

(OOC: Let's take a day for James. I'm stupid busy anyway, and I wanted to get up the answer to his question about Cumana - which I have now, just have to write it out).

Alexis said...

There, I've written a post about Cumanese culture.

Is there anything left to cover before the party boards ship?

Maximillian said...

I think as a party we have still not come to consensus on how many/which horses we are bringing, and how much food to buy for said horses, but that's the only thing to consider. I suppose we may have been making too much of it if the church is paying...

Alexis said...

I had made a decision yesterday and had forgotten it. IF the party doesn't mind, I thought I'd increase the total tonnage of hay in my world by ten times, thus reducing the total cost to 4 c.p. for TEN POUNDS of hay.

If its okay with you all, of course.

Ahmet said...

Sounds good to me!

Ahmet asks Madam Salvador again, directly, if they will be entitled to a share of the profits "or any other compensation" should they participate lustily in any combat "or any other services in which lustful participation is required."

Lukas said...

"Ahmet, your tact is legendary. Though I do agree on half your questions."

Alexis said...

Ahmet,

Madam makes a pointed effort to completely misunderstand what you're saying. "Passengers rarely - most rarely - receive a share in any part of the profits, my friend Turk. But perhaps we might be able to put you to work. You might profit from that."

Ahmet said...

"Just in the unlikely event that you require my services, I want to be sure I'll be appropriately compensated."

Ahmet manages to say this without a leer, wink, or elbow nudge.

James C. said...

Andrej pays madame the upfront passage required (1,344 sp & 70 gold) leaving 400 gold of the flat rate that Rank paid out (534 gold & 312 silver).

As for the horses...

Andrej pays for 10 days of hay for his 4 horses, 1,200 lbs. for 400 silvers.

Remember, the party does not need to pay for their own passage nor that of their horses... but you must buy food, hay, feed and pay for your own cargo.

Have we worked out a rate for cargo yet?

Alexis said...

We had settled on 25 s.p. per ton.

Alexis said...

Per day, that is.

Ahmet said...

How many pounds in a 17th century ton?

Ahmet said...

Also... what is the approximate weight of Enrico's heavy warhorse (3+3 HD, 43 HP)?

As the heavy warhorse must eat 100% more forage than a regular horse, I essentially have four horses (two lights and a heavy that eats twice as much). So Ahmet also buys 10 days of hay -- 1,200 pounds at 400 silvers.

Maximillian said...

I'll need 300 lbs of hay for our one riding horse, 10 sp, and I'll buy 7 days of horse-feed bringing my total up to 19 lbs. (4sp, 8cp)

Remind me how many days of lodging we've had here, and I'll deduct that as well.

James C. said...

So... do we still want to haul horses? I'm ready to sell mine. None of the new mercs have them so when we move as agroup we're bogged down anyway... thoughts?

Maximillian said...

I think it makes sense, esp. for the riding horses. My situation is a little bit complicated because the horse is not mine, it belongs to my hireling, but unless Alexis (OK, Mareo) objects, I'd sell it and give him the coin.

Ahmet said...

Ahmet and Enrico won't sell their warhorses... I'm not sure they'll be so easy to come by. Riding horses probably are replaceable anywhere.

Alexis said...

On the subject of buying, then ... the local merchants are only interested in buying up to 1 riding horse per party member that actually has a riding horse. For this they will pay 31 g.p.

Apart from that, the only other buyer for horses is one that will pay 130 g.p. for Enrico's heavy war horse.

Maximillian said...

Ouch, that's half what they cost in Bozen. Given a 26 gp loss, I guess I'll keep Mareo's horse.

James C. said...

Andrej and Sofia sell their extra horses. Can we sell tack and saddlery as well?

Lukas said...

Hey, I'm here. Work is busy. Have to do maths about horses and weight and whatnot so I might not have anything meaningful for a while.

Alexis said...

For a bridle, 32 s.p. No price for a saddle or bit. 13 s.p. for a saddle blanket.

Lukas and everyone,

If you want to put off the math until later, we can retcon it back to Fiume and move this forward ... I'm not too much of a stickler for these details being done in this exact moment. Only, once you're aboard I'd rather you didn't change your mind about things, such as how much of something you've already bought. I'll give you the option of selling a horse and such, and I assume you're buying SOME amount of hay.

I'm comfortable letting this languish (I don't know if James is healthy yet even - hope you're feeling better!) and I'm in no hurry. I have more time than yesterday, wrote a long post already, things are good here.

James C. said...

I'm still sick (thanks for asking) but am ready to follow along some and ready to go. Consider the horses and tack above sold. 10 days of hay for 2 horses purchased and Andrej & crew ready to go.

Lukas said...

I think I'm going to sell Tovenaar. A bit sad about it, but I CAN summon a mount so they have become redundant.

I will be buying enough hay for 9 days. I will be paying passage for me, hichem and magnus.

In summary, that is my plan that I am executing. However, I would like to do the math before I forget I need to do the math. Even though I think the numbers are going to be close. (Loss of one horse and it's hay, reduction of price in hay, increase due to adding in weight calculation.)

Maximillian said...

I'm ready to move on, but in the spirit of not forgetting, how many days have we been here, and can I assume the same inn rates as we've been using?

Ahmet said...

Passage for people and horses is covered by the Church. We only have to pay for our cargo (and hay/feed for horses).

Cargo is 25 s.p. per ton per day.

How many pounds in a ton? 2,000? 2,240?

Alexis said...

10 days in Fiume, Maximillian.

2,000 lb. per ton, Ahmet

James C. said...

And food for yourselves. Andrej's spells are no longer enough for the entire entourage.

Ahmet said...

Sorry... what are the food requirements again? One pound (per person) per day if you're resting, two pounds if you're traveling, three pounds if you're fighting?

Alexis said...

That's correct, Ahmet; 3 lbs. if you got involved in combat that particular day. 2 lbs. if you're spending the day walking or riding, or participating in ordinary labor. 1 lb. if you're resting, say aboard ship.

Hard work - like mining, or packing heavy goods, etc., I think must be 4 lb. a day (or more), like a Canadian voyageur, who ate 6 lb. of meat per day ... but don't worry about that. I may change the rules someday, but the ones you have are fine for until you hear different from me.

Lukas said...

Math updated.

Alexis said...

Okay all, here's something fun:

http://tao-of-dnd.wikispaces.com/

Alexis said...

Should have posted this one:

http://tao-of-dnd.wikispaces.com/Introduction

Lukas said...

Yeah I've got some access restriction issues.

Alexis said...

Oh darn. I'm not sure if its you or the site. I'll have to do some checking.

James C. said...

I'm also blocked. I created a user: James_C_admt, if that helps.

Lukas said...

Yeah I have Lukas_Meyer

Alexis said...

Those links should work now. I had to go through some handstands to change permissions, but now anyone should be able to see.

Lukas said...

Confirmed. It works.

Alexis said...

Wonderful.

I am taking suggestions on what house rules to add, regarding little, niggling stuff (not the big stuff like spells and so on, that will all get added too, like the cleric spells and so on).

I am happy. I had gone looking for a self-made wiki previously, but not in about 10 months. This should be a nice addition to the other material.

Alexis said...

YESSSSS!

Try this link:

http://tao-of-dnd.wikispaces.com/Fiume+Market

Ahmet said...

Very nice!

Now if we can just find a way to automatically expenditures, incomes, food usage, ammo depletion... :)

Alexis said...

Build an app for your phone.

Noted, I hadn't changed the hay cost for the table uploaded there ... but that will be fixed next time!

Soooooooo happpeeeeeey!

Lukas said...

This definitely surpasses the power of email.

Lukas said...

I have a feeling it will expand a lot once we get to the mission...

Perhaps overland travel times? Are those standard?

Illness and healing perhaps?

Prayer and other religious benefits maybe?

Lukas said...

Oh and putting combat action points there too would be nice. So it's all tidy and in one place.

Ahmet said...

Is "No." the number available?

For example, I want to buy a bunch of apples... does the "2" mean there's only 2 apples available?

Alexis said...

That's what it means, Ahmet. There are TWO apples available.

Where do you think you are, Meyer's?

Working on those, Lukas.

Andrej said...

Using the Fiume market list have sold a number of items of both Andrej's and Sofia's, including one horse each. Updated count is 24 people and 8 horses. Never collected or returned the gold to Ranko for the two horses no longer in the party and paid madame 140 gold for 7 day's passage for the entire party instead of the amount previously given.

Bought provisions and hay and updating char sheets now. I'm ready to move on now.

Ahmet said...

Andrej, how much food can you create per day?

I'm trying to figure out how much food we need to buy for our group of 24 people.

Andrej said...

bought 600 lbs of hay, enough for 2 light war horses for 10 days. Current cargo needs: 1387 lbs.

All party members, get your food but do not pay for your cargo costs... total your weight and give it to me once you are finished buying and Andrej will pay that out of the church funds.

Repeat, you only need to by your hay and food, I will pay to haul it all at once in the end. Sorry for late notice. Thanks.

Andrej said...

50 lbs. so any day we don't fight I can cover us all.

I'm buying supplemental food for Andrej, Sofia and the church-provided hirelings. You guys cover supplemental for your respective crews.

I'm buying 10 days or so in advance per person and assuming I need 5 lbs per person (i.e. half our days spent fighting). I'm hoping that to be overly conservative.

Ahmet said...

Can we buy live chickens, etc., and bring them on board to butchered when required?

I'm not sure how long fresh meat will keep on board, and there's not enough smoked salmon, salted herring, and beef jerky to go around.

I suppose we could just buy 50 pounds of potatoes each and call it a day.

Andrej said...

Buy chickens if you want, but I'd buy them for the eggs. I just went to the town market and filled up on unleavened bread and sacks of apples and ground nuts and I fed 24 people no problem. Remember, this is supplementary... Andrej is still fronting the first 2 lbs. of needed food.

Alexis said...

You can bring live chickens provided you buy cages for them. I know chicken cages aren't on the list, so just double the cost of whatever the chicken price is.

Fresh meat will keep for 4 days.

Ahmet said...

There's only 2 apples in town, Andrej. :P

Andrej said...

Look again, there are 2 sacks of apples for each party member, 22 lbs each.

Ahmet said...

Ah, I was looking at the grocer.

Alexis said...

LOL.

The grocer simply isn't stocked with apples. That would require him moving his ass down to the town market ... and the people at the town market are interested in selling them two at a time.

Alexis said...

Lukas, I've added pages to the wiki for ship travel and overland travel. The ship travel work I did last night. Let me know if there's some detail I've forgotten.

Ahmet said...

Alright, let's look into becoming chicken farmers.

We can buy a chicken for 12 c.p., and a chicken cage for another 12 c.p. A butchered chicken weighs 4 pounds, so let's estimate a live chicken in a cage weighs 8 pounds (and provides 4 pounds of meat).

There's no chicken feed listed, but let's assume we can feed 10 chickens per day on what it would cost to feed 1 horse per day -- 9 c.p. Or if you prefer, we could buy 22.8 pounds of wheat grain for 84 c.p. or 20.6 pounds of oatmeal at 108 c.p. I'm guessing 10 chickens would take about 10 days to go through 20 pounds of grain, so it works out either way to about 9 c.p. per day.

It appears that chickens generally lay one egg per day but let's say if we keep a chicken for 10 days, it will lay 9 eggs.

So for 114 c.p. (chicken, cage, 10 days of feed) you get 9 eggs (worth 27 c.p.) and a butchered chicken (worth 24 c.p., but you have to do the butchering yourself). And I suppose you can still keep the cage (12 c.p.).

114 c.p. in, 63 c.p. out.

But it's better than eating spoiled meat.

Andrej said...

Ahmet, I say take the initiative and go for it. Buy as many chickens as you want, just let me know the weights and costs.

I will pay for the freighting and we can take the start-up costs out of the church-money as it feeds the party undertaking the mission, so seems to me appropriate use of funds.

Lukas said...

Thank you!

I bought 22lbs of apples previously (a few days ago I believe) as a just in case. Along with 2 lbs of bacon, and some wine.

I'm probably near 20 lbs of apples now as I was augmenting Andrej's supply.

So biscuits I think.. Yes I am going to augment with some biscuits. 12 LBS of biscuits.
Because yeah, biscuits. 15 dozen? I think I may need some more sacks.

I will get 6 burlap sacks. I can't imagine having enough burlap sacks. Since it says 0cp I'm going to assume 1sp will cover it? (At least as a tip to get the better burlap sacks)

Lukas said...

Also, since I have like 36 lbs of food between two people, and I doubt we're going to fight every day, I don't mind sharing if necessary.

Maximillian said...

Having two chickens myself, I'll say that your estimate for feeding the chickens when they can't forage is pretty good. It's not necessarily a good guess that the chickens sold for eating would be laying hens. I'm not sure what the expectations of shoppers in 1650 would be, but if the farmer could get away with selling off two or three year old hens for eating, and keep the ones that were laying, they would.

I'll contribute a sack of potatoes, a keg of ale (unless we want to go for a barrel between us...), and a package of butter to the mix, in addition to my share of their feed.

The Wiki looks nice, Alexis.

Alexis said...

I think it is very funny, Ahmet. There are a lot of would-be chicken farmers in the world who calculated as you did above who are now bitter, resentful and even baffled by how freaking hard it is to raise chickens.

I find that chickens need 3.5 ounces of feed per day from the internet. That's on ship; chickens will usually eat whatever's in the yard. My friends in Slovenia told me years ago when I was researching chickens for my estate planning venture that they never penned their chickens or fed them. Chickens will stay close to humans because that's where the food is ... and if you're on an isolated farm, they typically won't go more than a few hundred feet away from your house. Noisy as hell, though, and they poop everywhere.

Andrej said...

It appears that pending a total per-member weight from each of the party members (so Andrej can pay freight) and Ahmet's chicken coop details, we're ready to move along, yes?

Alexis said...

I'm going to limit the party's available space in Madam's hull to ten tons. That's all she'll rent you, despite the remaining cargo space being empty.

Andrej said...

Sounds like plenty unless that includes horses. Does it?

Maximillian said...

horse food : 320 lbs
People food: 65 lbs
Gear: 123 lbs
2 people
1 riding horse

Alexis said...

We'll say that does not include the horses. 10 tons OVER the horses.

Andrej said...

Got it, we should be fine for space then. I've already paid/ deducted our passage. Once I get final counts on cargo we'll be good-to-go... ten tons is way more than we need. Perhaps we'll buy building supplies on the way... :)

Ahmet said...

Hmm... well, if anyone in the party has some kind of chicken expertise, come along and help Ahmet pick out egg-layers. If not... maybe he'll be stuck with duds, but we can still eat them.

Ahmet buys 10 chickens in cages, 10 days worth of chicken feed (assuming my estimates of 90 c.p. for approximately 20 pounds of feed and that 20 pounds will feed 10 chickens for 10 days), and a burlap sack to hold the feed. He asks the chicken seller how often the chickens he's purchased can be expected to lay eggs, but of course he has no way of knowing if he's getting ripped off or not.

So that works out to 100 pounds of chickens and chicken-related accessories.

He also buys 20 pounds of olives, 30 pounds of grapes, and 20 pounds of beans. We should have plenty of food, although we may all be vegetarians by the end of this trip.

So Ahmet's party, not including horses, has 678 pounds of gear, 1,200 pounds of horse food, 70 pounds of human food, and 100 pounds of chickens, totaling 2048 pounds. Hopefully Madam will round it down to 1 ton even.

Ahmet said...

(OOC: I think we've all entertained fantasies of raising chickens. Fresh eggs!)

Maximillian said...

I suppose I can speak with animals and ask the chickens if they're good layers... (so strange...)

Alexis, will we have to supply our own drinking water? Anderj, do you have Purify Water?

Alexis said...

Here is another one of those DM points.

Should I just let it be, or should I ask if Ahmet bought a rooster?

Because otherwise, its going to be hard to get eggs.

Andrej said...

I'll handle water, it's part of the create food & water spell and I've also got create water if necessary. We're good there.


One thing I forgot to factor in... how are the Austrian mercs equipped, Alexis?

Maximillian said...

(ooc, on a small scale, raising chickens is very easy, if not especially cost-effective)

Andrej said...

Of course Ahmet got a rooster, he brought the druid with him and the druid must know. ; )

Maximillian said...

(ooc, naa rooster's aren't necessary for the first few years. [At least for modern chickens.])

Alexis said...

I sure hope you're kidding, Maximillian.

Anyway, ain't no modern chickens around. By modern standards, these are scrawny, meaner, lay less eggs and are on the whole CLEANER than modern chickens.

Andrej said...

(OOC: can't now shake the image of "modern" chickens with education, careers and money not needing a cock around to strut, crow and foul things up)

Andrej said...

(OOC: check that, now "dirty" modern chickens as above but in fetish wear... damn this abominable imagination.)

Maximillian said...

haha, hilarious. No, I wasn't kidding, just relaying my personal experience with modern career chickens, which will lay reliably for the first 2-3 years as virgins. (They're dirty, but not to the fetish level. For the truly perverted, there are the modern industrial meat breeds. Absolutely disgusting, but I still eat them)

Alexis said...

(OOC: I return your attention to the war chickens referred to and pictured at the bottom of this post)

Andrej said...

(OOC: Ah yes, the war chicken never predicted by Jared Diamond.)

Ahmet said...

I honestly have no idea if 17th century virgin chickens will lay eggs without a rooster... but when Ahmet asks the chicken seller how often these chickens will lay eggs, perhaps he will tell Ahmet he needs to buy a rooster (if he does need to buy one), in which case he'll buy nine hens and one rooster.

If the chicken seller is of no help, Ahmet will buy 10 hens and we'll see what happens... but even if we have no eggs for breakfast, but we will still have 10 chicken dinners. ;)

Lukas said...

(OOC: As a side note, that war chicken looks suspiciously like a Chocobo, but to be honest, in a world of giant and dire creatures, war chickens are a scary prospect. For me, right up there with giant racoons and turkeys.)

Anyhow... I'm so ready to pirate on the open seas I'm contemplating digging out my eye patch for whenever I post during the next stretch.

Alexis said...

Better buy a rooster, Ahmet. :)

Just to further obfuscate the difficulties of the party getting out of port, the last bit of the wiki I'm putting up today is this page. I'm going to try to keep this going for places the party visits.

Andrej said...

That last page there will be of huge benefit should the party want to get involved more in trade as we can see what should be in short and long supply wherever we've been.

Ahmet said...

Very well... Ahmet will buy 9 chickens and one rooster, which will change my calculations somewhat.

At the risk of turning this into Noah's Ark... what are the logistics involved in buying a goat? I'm sure we'd all like fresh milk while on board. :)

Lukas said...

You know, we can start a farm once we get to the site right?

*Thinks about Robinson Crusoe*

I think we need all the animals.

Alexis said...

Seriously Ahmet, goats will be cheaper in Anatolia and Greece.

James C. said...

For Ahmet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IhNuUjK6CI

Maximillian said...

remind me not to cast speak with animals on any goats.

Ahmet said...

Ahmet would definitely be "the old man" in that scenario...

Alexis said...

Okay, going to get the party out on the Adriatic come the morning.

Alexis said...

The next post is up.