The Long-Standing Online Campaign, beginning in Germany, travelling through Italy and Greece to the Sea of Azov.
I believe I can continue to "charge" two hexes (at a cost of 1 MP) and attack Black Sword (at the cost of 2 MP, because other actions are double cost), or advance normally two hexes and attack Black Sword (at the cost of 1 MP). So either way, I can move two hexes and attack. Is there a benefit to picking one or the other?In any event, Ahmet ends up in the hex directly behind Black Sword and attacks.(Note that despite the picture, Ahmet is armed with scimitar, not pick ax.)To hit (D20+1): 14Damage (D8+3): 10
Ahmet,Because you moved at double speed the round before, you can actually move triple this round, at a cost of 1/3 movement per hex ... so that means you could move three hexes and attack Black Sword as you went by.You CANT at normal speed move two hexes and attack at 1 MP - because an attack costs you 2 MP. If you were moving at normal movement, you couldn't reach black sword and attack; but because you're moving double speed, you can move 1/2 - 1/2 - attack.Follow?
*I'll fix Ahmet's weapon.
If you intend to keep the diamond going, don't forget feinting could probably navigate enemies towards allies...Meanwhile, starting this round, I would like to ready charm person, and move nowhere.(OOC: I defy the rules of gaming by occupying three hexes!)
Andrej maintains the diamond formation, which I believe does not put him into melee range with anybody, so that is it. He hopes the death train moves such that next round he may do some holy smiting.
(OOC: As an aside, I realize now that I made a pretty big mistake when re-equipping Andrej... in plate mail Andrej will never be able to attack twice so I should have either:a) gotten a shield and a bigger mace or b) stuck with lighter armor
Melchior will follow Ahmet in formation, ending up adjacent to him and behind forest sword, attacking him.To hit: (D20): 20 (woot)Damage (d8+1): 7
So I'll need to move at triple this round to get into position to attack, correct? Where does that leave me next round? Do I have to keep moving?
Melchior,While Ahmet is 2 hexes from black sword, you're 3 hexes from forest sword; I'm not certain at the moment what your movement is; if it is 3, you'll have to move triple speed to attack forest sword. If your movement is 4, this works astoundingly in your favor ... I'll tell you why, but first I want to know your movement; if its 3, confirm you're moving triple speed, or confirm that you don't attack this round.As a side note, until you are more precise about your movement, how fast you are moving, if you are increasing to double speed, etc, etc, please do not attack until that is clear between us. In any case, your statement above is again a NULL program - moving in the diamond behind Ahmet does not automatically put you in front of Forest sword - in fact it puts you one hex away from forest sword.
Ah, I see Melchior surmised the same thing I surmised. What is your move, Melchior?
Andrej, do not put too much store in "the diamond," particularly if you don't get the full possible combat effectiveness you might have in these very critical first rounds. If you can get into a position to attack and do good, I strongly suggest you do so, or take this surprise opportunity and cast.Incidentally, I am surprised you did not cast aid on one of the fighters, as it could have increased their hit points PRIOR to being hit (reducing their chance of being stunned). Just a DM's comment.
Sorry about all the questions here - first combat with this system.Does Joost have reach with that glaive? Can he attack over us?If he can do that, he will move triple, coming up right behind Ahmet and I, and glaive black sword over my shoulder.To hit: (d20): 3Damage: pretty sure no damage.
Triple speed, I think. My movement is 3, so I must to attack. But I'd like to know the ramifications of that for next turn before I decide for sure.Joost is also move 3, moving at triple speed.
According to what I posted yesterday on my blog, yes, Joost has the reach with his glaive. He can hack with it between two friendlies, but he can't hack through a friendly.Melchior stop rolling to hit.Guys, can we please go at this more slowly.Please tell me information in this order:1) How fast are you moving: normal, double or single2) Say what exact hex to you expect to end up at with reference to your opponent. See the image with Emmanuel's Movement on this post: space 1 through 6 (or ABCDEF if you prefer) with relation to anyone that isn't a party member (who is also moving).3) THEN attack, and roll damage in case you hit.
Melchior,I need to add, because you are in banded, you cannot charge at triple speed - so you don't get those bonuses.The ramifications you ask about are written on this post, under "slowing from quadruple/triple speed."
I don't mind the questions, fellas. But as I can't ask my own questions directly as if we were across a table, statements like "I move forward and attack" won't work.
Ahmet, both hexes on your side of black sword can be interpreted as "directly behind." You see my problem.
I don't think I can reach anyone this turn either.If I go double speed and move two hexes for 1 MP, that leaves me with 2 MP... but it would would cost me 4 MP to attack if going double speed.If I go normal speed and move two hexes for 2 MP, that leaves me with 1 MP, and not enough to attack.
We will get there eventually.Ahmet, it ALWAYS costs 2 movement points to attack, regardless of your speed.You're moving forward at double speed. The first hex costs 1/2 an MP. You now have 2 1/2 MP left. You move forward another hex. You now have 2 MP left. You have enough MP to attack.Melchior moves forward at triple speed. 1/3 MP gets him one hex forward. 2/3 MP gets him two hexes forward. 1 MP gets him three hexes forward. Then he has 2 MP left and HE can attack.Follow?
I think the best I can do is stop (0 MP), drop my scimitar (0 MP), draw a dagger (0 MP), throw it at black sword (2 MP), and pick up my scimitar (1 MP).
I have put up another pick indicating where the position numbers around the black sword would be.
Ah... I was going by the "double cost of all actions", I thought that included attacks.
Read my answer Ahmet.
OK... got it.1) Double speed.2) Black Sword's 2.3) 14 to hit, 10 damage (unless you want me to re-roll).
(the double-cost penalty applies to things that are made harder by running while trying to do, like lighting torches and stuff; attacking is technically made easier by moving fast)Sadly, because Ahmet is in plate, he cannot get the benefits from charging. Please roll to attack.
But you said there that I can't move at triple speed... So why are we having this conversation. It isn't possible for anyone but Ahmet to attack in the surprise round.I also have a bit of an issue with how you set us up for this. If we had moved one more hex before starting double-movement, we'd be in a situation were we could all attack in the surprise round, instead of basically just strolling up to them.First fight and all, but really, we're set up here to basically not bother with a surprise round.
*bangs head on table*Melchior, I said you couldn't CHARGE at triple speed. Technically, you can't charge at all.But "charging" is not "moving." These are two different things. "Charging" in the third round is attacking with momentum and grace at double or better speed. "Moving" is panting and gasping but getting there in time to swing.Follow?I am unclear on how I "set this up"; the party picked the go-time; the party chose where to run from; the party chose to run double speed.Also, I don't think you appreciate just how golden an opportunity you have here. You weren't noticed after moving once. You surprised your opponents after moving your second round, so you automatically get to move first at this point, with initiative. The round AFTER this one, you roll initiative with me, which you might win again, giving you yet one more round of action.How much do you want?
May I recant my previously stated action?
Andrej, at this point no one's action is definite and established, not until everyone understands what they're doing and why.Even if this takes til April.
LOL... we'll get there guys, everybody take a deep breath.I believe it is Ahmet's intention to be standing in black sword's 2 spot. I think Melichor is going for forest sword's 3-spot which leaves black sword's 3 spot open for Andrej to move into and attack if he does a triple move. Andrej's momentum will carry him forward next round, where he will have to spend 1/3 movement (1 pt.) to slow back down. Correct?
Slowing from quadruple/triple speed. "Half movement" means that you cannot slow to less than double normal speed (half of quadruple) unless you wish to crash to the ground and tumble. This causes 1d4 damage. Slowing from triple speed requires that you cannot move slower than normal speed without tumbling, which causes 1d3 damage.The above says nothing about "spend 1/3 movement (1 pt.) to slow back down" ... so I have no idea whatsoever where you got that.What it says is that if you move triple or quadruple speed this round, you have to move at least normal or double speed next round, or take damage.
I got it from reading the table just now and not the post. The table is not unclear, I just saw a movement requirement where I'm used to seeing a movement point cost. I understand now. 1) Triple movement2) Go to Black sword's 3-spot/ forest sword's 2-spot3) Attack forest sword: 19 to hit/ 5 points dmg(OOC: That's all I can do today, I'll check back in tonight and be able to play again tomorrow... be patient all, we'll manage the battle just fine.)
Whoah... At no point did we say "we move 3 hexes out from the corner, form up starting at this hex, then start moving forward."I understand this is a nice opportunity, but if you want to run a detailed tactical game, then we have to have detailed control over what each of our characters are doing. We assumed that we would move to a position where we could start a charge that would bring us close into grips with our enemies, and didn't assume that the starting point would be one where we couldn't reach them.Anyways, live and learn.The take-away here is that if I move triple speed and attack, I will either tumble to the ground and take damage, or I can try a tumble dex check and end up prone?And in addition to that, I can't charge because I have heavy armor on. And I can't try an overbearing attack because that requires 3 1/3 movement points. Which basically nobody in heavy armor gets without very high strength?Am I getting this correct? That's just not how inertia works. If I hit a motherfucker when I'm moving full speed, he moves and I mostly stop. Why would running into somebody be MORE costly movement-wise than running up to them, stopping and swinging a sword? Has this been play-tested, or is that what we're doing and I should shut up?
Man, I'm sorry I'm getting hot under the collar about this. Work is stupid-busy today, my wife locked the keys in the car and I have to figure something out for the kidlet next week because of a teacher strike. So I'm feeling prickly.I don't really want to play with this detailed a combat system, though. That's not what I want out of 1E. I just don't have time for it, and the blog format is not good for that style. I can play RPTools 4e for that.
"At no point did we say "we move 3 hexes out from the corner, form up starting at this hex, then start moving forward."I asked you if this was okay. The time to argue about this was on the last post. I'm sorry if you feel you've been ripped by me. I'm not sure if you think I'm trying to rip you or take advantage or what. If you want to start again from the beginning, right back where you're all behind the wall, or from some other place entirely, I'm willing."if you want to run a detailed tactical game, then we have to have detailed control over what each of our characters are doing. We assumed that we would move to a position where we could start a charge that would bring us close into grips with our enemies, and didn't assume that the starting point would be one where we couldn't reach them."I wrote a post about movement and how characters moved A WEEK AGO. You all had plenty of time to count hexes and make measurements and so on. I was told that at the beginning of your turn you'd move your full movement towards the fire. If you want me to be more exact, then YOU have to be more exact. I repeat; if you want another try at this, then let's go back and try again.Regarding a CHARGE. I wrote A WEEK AGO that you couldn't charge in BANDED MAIL if the charge lasted three rounds. I made reference to my combat posts yesterday and asked if they were helpful. I presumed the party had bothered to read these posts. I'm sorry they didn't. But if you're not going to bother reading what I write about my combat system, what do you expect me to do about it?If you want to CHARGE, you can't do it in the third round of movement in Banded. This is because, to me, CHARGING implies strength and finesse, whereas in BANDED you are a big freaking lumbering hulk. However, you still attack as a first level paladin, you just don't get +4 to hit - that's the only difference."The take-away here is that if I move triple speed and attack, I will either tumble to the ground and take damage, or I can try a tumble dex check and end up prone?"No, the take-away here is that you have to give yourself time and space to SLOW DOWN. That is how inertia works. If you speed up, you have to slow down. You can't go all fired out and then stop on a freaking dime. That's why ball players run PAST first base. That's why if you're moving triple speed, expect to move PAST your intended opponent. I don't know any situation where anyone runs at an enemy in battle and then STOPS bang in front of that enemy without continuing to move forward.AGAIN, if you feel I'm just being an asshole and trying to fuck you somehow, then let's START OVER. I am not trying to screw or fuck over anyone here.
"And in addition to that, I can't charge because I have heavy armor on. And I can't try an overbearing attack because that requires 3 1/3 movement points. Which basically nobody in heavy armor gets without very high strength?"This is a huge misunderstanding that I am to be blamed for. I keep thinking these things are obvious.If Melchior's "Movement" is normally 3 - then when Melchior is moving at triple speed, then Melchior's present "movement" is 9 HEXES. In the overrun opponent description, I failed to add the word "hexes" in the sentence. In other words, where it says, "a total movement of 5 is required," what that means is, "the character must be able to cover a distance of at least five hexes with his or her movement." So you see, you actually have that in spades - but instead of piecing together what I meant, you read the exact words and failed to take note that perhaps I am not letter-perfect in every description I make. In future, rather than assuming I'm trying to goof you or that I'm writing something that there's no way anyone will be able to do, why don't you say, "this doesn't quite make sense" and ask me to say it more clearly?Hey, look, I'm freaking sorry. I'm really sorry this isn't going exactly as perfect as you want it to go. But I'm working with text here, I'm writing thousands of words on the subject, I have to do everything in static pictures and I'm answering the questions of four people, none of whom are clear. Can we have a little patience, please?
Melchior, if you don't want this system, I can't help you.This system allows me to make combat interesting, dangerous, thrill of the moment terror; I'm not interested in just bookkeeping numbers until someone wins. You've saw me run this combat system at the Stable in November. I assumed you recognized that's what was going on here.
Almost every other action listed is identified in MP cost, why would I assume that overbearing would be different. All the other combats that I have read here seemed a LOT more straightforward than this, but maybe that's because this reference sheet wasn't available, and since I wasn't playing when I read it, it didn't seem that critical that I really break it down.Look, I sometimes design boardgames, and I also design software and write (when I can't avoid it) technical documentation. I'm not assuming anything here - I'm reading the rules you provided and trying to apply them to the current scenario.We're being asked to read and understand all those 1000's of words, and make detailed decisions about our characters actions based on them. While getting "bangs head on table" responses.I WANT to play in this game. I love the setting, the ideas, the players... but from my perspective, this combat system is in no way interesting, dangerous or thrilling. It's grinding number-crunching, using, as you said, a static map that is hard for us to use to indicate what we are doing, and time-intensive for you to update.Also, lack of clarity here means we can make terrible decisions 2 rounds ago and have no idea what the longer-term consequences will be. Maybe that's a feature, but it's a bug for me.But I am being impatient, as well. I hear you on that one.So, based on my understanding here, can I do an overbearing attack on Forest sword from the hex SE of hex 3? Would that drop him prone in hex 4, or push him prone in hex 5?Further to that, could I continue my line of movement with a jump-attack over the fire at grey glaive the following round?
I tried to write an answer, but it all comes out as frustration.Here's the deal, Melchior. You're trying to work the rules and change the rules when you haven't yet learned the rules.This last set of questions you asked is too many questions and makes too many assumptions. Please simplify and ask again.
I think once we get past our semantic troubles (charge vs. move) and execute a round or two we'll be fine. Combat has not been this confusing or complicated in the past. A lot of it was happening behind the screen... Alexis would basically tell us what we could/ couldn't do. Little by little he's been turning more of the mechanics over to the players to sort out for themselves, and we have two new players so there's some confusion. We'll get through it folks, and I have no doubt it will be thrilling. We haven't made any real tactical blunders. We moved out from cover, quickly, and we have a surprised enemy before us. Let us commence bringing the pain.
Something occurred to me just now when considering a successful end to the battle we've just begun. we've made often reference to "storming the castle" and what seemed obvious to me I understand now may not have been... our goal here is to open the bailey doors in the hopes that the townsfol on the other side will be then able to flee, then we run like hell, correct? I never imagined that we'd actually go into the castle to fight. We're on the same page here, yes?
What do you think the hardest part of storming the front door to a castle is? Walking around the gardens inside?
Most castles are barred from the inside, Lukas, not the outside.
True, but this one could be barred on both sides.
I think storming the castle is just a Princess Bride'ism.But what have we really accomplished if we open the gates and then run away? Let's say we save half the townspeople.That still leaves hundreds of corpses inside, if we include the dead from the mining collapse. We assume Hornung's army won't be here until morning, giving plenty of time for the Bishop to raise an army of the undead. They're no longer contained in the lower bailey, but they'll still be a huge problem for Hornung as they wander the streets of Arnsberg moaning "braaaains."Anyway, let's not get ahead of ourselves. We're probably not going to survive the battle anyway. ;)
Oh for Christ's sake, if I knew you were going to wail like so I would have left you with Emmanuel and the horses. If the castle is barred from the inside then it was all pointless and you were right and I'll send you a bouquet of flowers and beg your eternal forgiveness for ever asking that you go on an adventure with us in the first place.
I'm assuming the Bishop doesn't have many men. If he did, he wouldn't bother raising all these corpses, right? Maybe we kill these 12 and that just leaves the Bishop, a handful of archers, and two old men in cassocks. Plus, after we kill the guards, we'll have all these brightly colored glaives and swords lying around. After the Bishop's betrayal, I'm sure we can convince a few stout-hearted townspeople to help us. I love leading charges of armed rabble :)
@ Ahmet: The only way this plan works in my view is if we manage surprise and confusion. So far, so good. Whatever defenders are upon the wall will at some point turn their attention (and arrows) to us... unless you've got a brilliant plan up your sleeve I'm not sure what more could be managed than saving half the town. But consider, that's half the town now having escaped a death trap set by their lord. Some of those townsfolk might be leveled individuals or at least good enough to be in a militia or something... we could also be recruiting more members here.
@ Ahmet: We're sort of the same page, let's wait and see if we even get that far. ;)
Now you're talking."It is said that the people are revolting!""You said it, they stink on ice."
Okay. Tired now.I've had lots of time to think about this and get some perspective.Melchior takes part in two moves of a combat system he's never played before and declares he's uninterested in it, doesn't want to play combat like 4e (which is incredibly insulting, by the way) and accuses me of somehow organizing all this in some way that puts the party in jeopardy.The rest of you are kvetching and infighting and frankly I am just tired.I didn't expect this battle. I spent time setting up the map; writing up the guards; angsting over how tough they are, and how conceivably much I can tone their toughness down without compromising the world. And its all for naught anyway, because ...
If the Prince-Bishop is at least 12th level, since he's an archbishop, and if he's got henchmen, just as the party would have henchmen if they survived this battle, then those henchmen will be fanatically loyal to the Bishop, just as the party's henchmen will someday be loyal to the party. And those henchmen will have henchmen and those henchmen will have henchmen and so on.And if the Bishop has an evil plan, it follows that one of those henchmen is going to be installed at the gate which is clearly designed (posts and all) to keep the people inside for some reason.Now, if it takes 880,000 experience to be an Archbishop, and he started his first henchman at fifth level (when he had 13,000 x.p.), and the first henchman has half the Archbishop's x.p. after 13,000, that's 433,500 x.p. And if this guy is a fighter, and he starts his henchman at 5th level, then his henchman is going to have 207,750 x.p. And if that henchman has a henchman, so that we're now on the fourth level of henchmen below the Archbishop, whom I judge is going to assign at least someone of the fourth status of importance to a task like this, then THAT last henchman, the one standing right in front of you, is going to have something like 94,875 x.p. - which makes him 7th level, for shit's sake, and what's more he's going to have his own two henchmen with him helping him right now, isn't he? Go on, figure out their levels.Now, how is it I'm not going to kill you?
See? Told you we wouldn't have to worry about what happens after we attack the guards! :)
Look, I didn't sign up to play a combat system I've never played before. I thought I was playing 1E, not a detailed tactical rule-set that is at least as complicated as 4e (which is the only comparison point - the nature of the combat system is in no way being compared.) I read the rules and compared them to the tools that we have available for implementing them and came to the conclusion that I'm not terribly interested in playing those rules.If you want us to use detailed tactical combat rules, then the rules need to clear, understood by all players and we need to have detailed input on all aspects of where our characters are. This game format is terrible for that. It's a ridiculous amount of work for you, and not something I have time for in a game a play at work.In terms of difficulty, YOU control what information we have. YOU told us 12 guards. If there was a 7th level bishops henchman, with 2 henchman of his own, you should add "their leader is clearly the huge warrior in plate mail with an ornate axe. He seems to have 2 tough-looking lieutenants, as well. The rest appear to be common soldiery."We can't make informed decisions without good information from you. We can make dumb ones with good information, but making dumb ones with bad info - that's on the DM.So no, I'm sorry I wasted your time. All your times. Totally my bad. But I don't have time for this.
Yeah. Just fucking go already, okay?
May I recommend we abort today and sort out on Monday whether or not we have a campaign to play in and run or not anymore... and who is in/ out? I'm in.
I'm still running. But I'll need the weekend to adjust.This is hard enough to do online without having people try to push me around. I've repeated often that I've been playing this combat system for 24 years - longer than I played the old one; this blog, and the other blog, has examples of this combat system; hell, I ran it once as a series of reader polls. There's only so much "preparation" of would-be players I can make.You guys can write this off as complaining if you need to ... but I'm simply not going to back down on playing the combat MY way in MY world, even if it is online. It's my responsibility to describe what you see, yes, and lay the ground and handle the running.But the players have to bend. If you're going to play a deeper campaign, then you've got to be prepared to learn new things, change your way of thinking and adapt. I don't mean to say you're not trying to do this - but in light of being flat out told by someone they're not going to, period, because they don't fucking have the time ... I'm a bit on edge right now.
I'm just going to write it off as a bad day. What I'm about to suggest amounts to a complete waste of time as it pertains to the last two real-world days, but maybe we should pick it up again back at the inn?Lukas, I snapped at you above and I'm sorry. That's on me. If I may make my feelings plain to you, though, we had a chance to back out of the whole thing and we went ahead anyway. I saw your participation from the point we moved on from hiding on as looking for opportunities to complain or criticize our course of action, a course of action nobody forced you into. I got annoyed. Please accept my apology for snapping and if you'd like to state your case or feel I've misrepresented you, I will listen.
I'm still in.
Andrej, I was laying on a little thick with my pessimism and admittedly I was rising to every prod about negativity towards the plan, whether or not they were actually a prod at me.I apologize, though I still will continue whatever the party supports, and will try not to beat a dead horse in the future. Unless it is an undead horse. Or we think there's gold inside.In other words, I'm in.
"...and will try not to beat a dead horse in the future. Unless it is an undead horse. Or we think there's gold inside."My man.
At the moment, trying to figure out how exactly to get back on this dead horse again.
I'm not afraid to pick right up with the decisions we've made and all so far, but if we did could we run Melchior as an NPC at least through the encounter?If not, roof of the inn sans Melchior as the vigil starts?
Unfortunately, other things are going on.I think I'd like to return to the place where the party is still behind the building at point D - thus going back all of 36 seconds (too bad it's not 13, but this isn't Galaxy Quest). Reality has to reshape itself; Melchior doesn't exist and Andrej has 100 g.p. back in his pocket again.
(OOC: Thank god... That 100 gold pieces wiped me out.) I'm good to go, Alexis.
Go! Or are we not charging this time?
lol Lukas. We may need to hold down Ahmet and drag him back to the inn, but if the charge was suicidal before it can't be less so with one fewer fighter.
Ok let's retreat from this over sized stone gazebo.
Ahmet disagrees, but I don't. :) Back to the Inn!
I have to move an event up in time to give you reason to back off:The Bishop does have a fairly sizable army - when you pile up a Cleric's followers and the followers of a few 9th level plus fighters, it adds up.The party will hear the clanking of armor as a force of about two hundred men starts marching from far to the left of the gate (the party's left). These men start breaking into the nearest houses, grabbing the servants, and herding them together.(This would not have happened in the previous incarnation of this encounter - I meant it to happen at least two hours from now, but what the heck: it makes the party check its decision, and gets things going again.)
OK Alexis, I suppose you have to re-set the stage to ensure we're on the same page... but the party has decided to return to the inn once having seen how well guarded nature of the bailey doors
Beat me to the punch...Let's get the hell back to the inn... at least Emmanuel is on standby with the horses.Andrej, having stated this, moves the maximum distance he is allowed to back toward the inn.
Allow me to be the first to say it...Run away!Ahmet joins the others in falling back to the Inn.
(OOC: at least they're not heavily armored rabbits)
lol.I never thought you'd do anything except run - but in running is information.You are not alone. Your goods and equipment are not at the inn in town, you'll remember, but the one outside the walls. And Emmanuel had already heard that Hornung was nearby, and assumed the party would be going to see him in the morning, so everything is packed on the wagon. When he saw the townspeople fleeing the town, he hitched up the mules - he knew you'd show up sometime.
Lukas sticks with his companions, while he can run rather fast in comparison, alone he will likely be grabbed and unable to defend himself.
(OOC: You realize this is the third town I've devastated in this world; seems to be a pattern with me. I just sort of start with a small idea and it balloons until the town is being devastated)
I think Emmanuel has gotten used to this by now...
Yeah, its all kind of laughable at this point; I've lost a lot of the tension and getting it back again won't be easy.So I'm hurrying the events along. Where would you like to go with the wagon?
Yes, this is Emmanuel's third destroyed town so he's the veteran of the bunch... Andrej showed up after the 1st destroyed town.
Do we know which direction Hornung's riders went?
Emmanuel has heard tell that Hornung's force is three miles to the north west, along the road towards Hamme, and that its camped there.
Let us go three miles northwest, along the road towards Hamme.
Agreed, I follow Andrej.
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